@lenny108 they even tried to sue to acquire the rights of Srila Prabhupada books! They went as far to say he was hired to write, the books belong to ISKCON and not Srila Prabhupada... Once ISKCON is rectified it will conquer the whole world!!!!
Opposing team got bodied, Ritvik is what Srila Prabhupada wanted.... 11 years ago when I met ISKCON I read Srila Prabhupadas books, and got convinced with the philosophy, couldn't find a hole or an unanswered question in all of His books, conversations and letters. I never met any of these 'gurus' anytime they would come to the temple I wouldn't go (I'm in Latin America). So I wanted to take things more serious, start to live with devotees and get initiated but I was told by other initiated devotees that I couldn't accept His Divine Grace because he is not alive, instead I should accept a 'guru' that is alive. So illogical to me because I understood you would surrender your life to your Guru and I felt Srila Prabhupada was my guru because everything is in his books, and his instruction is alive. So I decided to leave and not come back because it didn't make sense to accept a person that didn't benefit my life in any way, or showed me the path... It's so unmotivating, but I'm glad to see this and other people come out with the same thoughts, at that time I really felt like I was crazy.
@tomashromnik108 Sannyasa also would not do wedding ceremony but Srila Prabhupada did this and so many other things, naturally He is above scripture...
Opposing team got bodied, Ritvik is what Srila Prabhupada wanted.... 11 years ago when I met ISKCON I read Srila Prabhupadas books, and got convinced with the philosophy, couldn't find a hole or an unanswered question in all of His books, conversations and letters. I never met any of these 'gurus' anytime they would come to the temple I wouldn't go (I'm in Latin America). So I wanted to take things more serious, start to live with devotees and get initiated but I was told by other initiated devotees that I couldn't accept His Divine Grace because he is not alive, instead I should accept a 'guru' that is alive. So illogical to me because I understood you would surrender your life to your Guru and I felt Srila Prabhupada was my guru because everything is in his books, and his instruction is alive. So I decided to leave and not come back because it didn't make sense to accept a person that didn't benefit my life in any way, or showed me the path... It's so unmotivating, but I'm glad to see this and other people come out with the same thoughts, at that time I really felt like I was crazy.
WithPrince-jj9jv Srila Prabhupada did not choose a successor, so that is not correct...
@ShreyashTiwari-qm3wq did you know you can download the audios from any source you want and they all have the voices recorded? Before blindly thinking they are edited please do your investigation
Opposing team got bodied, Ritvik is what Srila Prabhupada wanted.... 11 years ago when I met ISKCON I read Srila Prabhupadas books, and got convinced with the philosophy, couldn't find a hole or an unanswered question in all of His books, conversations and letters. I never met any of these 'gurus' anytime they would come to the temple I wouldn't go (I'm in Latin America). So I wanted to take things more serious, start to live with devotees and get initiated but I was told by other initiated devotees that I couldn't accept His Divine Grace because he is not alive, instead I should accept a 'guru' that is alive. So illogical to me because I understood you would surrender your life to your Guru and I felt Srila Prabhupada was my guru because everything is in his books, and his instruction is alive. So I decided to leave and not come back because it didn't make sense to accept a person that didn't benefit my life in any way, or showed me the path... It's so unmotivating, but I'm glad to see this and other people come out with the same thoughts, at that time I really felt like I was crazy.
@tomashromnik108 you have it all wrong prabhu. Srila Prabhupada did alot of things that were not found in vedic culture, for example the initiation of woman, another example could be he officiated weddings as a sannyasa. Like this you will find so many examples, Srila Prabhupada being as perfect as he is could see that his most senior disciples were not ready. This theory that Srila Prabhupada left disciples as initating gurus is so flawed that you can see by looking into the original 11 "gurus" how they fell from their positions... after srila prabhupada departure iskcon went off, now with the world seeing the power of the Jewish lobby it's clear how they too infiltrated iskcon, most of Srila Prabhupada senior disciples were and are jewish zionist....
@dvenka8561 Ocean of Mercy was written by one of these fake Gurus no? Bhakti Charu... The tapes are not fake you can go to veda base and you will hear perfectly the whispers... Now I ask do you know the story of the original 11 ritviks? Look at what happened to Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta and so on, all fell from their positions of Guru falling into sex, homo sex for Bhavananda. If that isn't enough proof than you should look into the 1990s lawsuit against Hansadutta, ISKCON leaders were trying to get their hands on Srila Prabhupada book rights, they incredibly said that Srila Prabhupada was just a hired writer for ISKCON, that paper pen typewriter all was supplied by ISKCON so it was ISKCONs property not Srila Prabhupada.... Can you believe that???? Crazy but true... If that isn't enough for you what do you say about July 9th letter giving the Ritvik order, or Srila Prabhupada will...
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 Yes just like a father wants his child to be like him and/or even better, but the proof is there, wanting is not enough there is training and the order must be given (MAY 28 1977) "THE TRAINING ISN'T COMPLETE" "I WILL GIVE THE ORDER NOW YOU BECOME GURU"
(JULY 9 1977) THE RITVIK ORDER IS GIVEN OUT, HOW CAN YOU DEBATE? Why can't you answer about the 90s lawsuit from BBTI? How can you be so blind 🦯? Leader in ISKCON literally said in court the Srila Prabhupada was just a hired writer, the audacity. I understand that you must be initiated by one of these guru's, it's probably why you defend something so blindly....
Our Sampradaya is Bhagavata- Parampara, descends from Krsna himself, only 32 names in whole list steming from Krsna, sooooo many years and only 32 names, our Parampara is not based in just Diksa, why hasn't any of ISKCON BOGUS GURU PUT THEIR NAME AFTER SRILA PRABHUPADA?
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 He did, you are not reading enough. He left Ritvik system, none of his devotees were fit, the training wasn't complete (may 28 1977)
Now did you know BBTI tried suing Hansadutta in the 90s trying to get access to the BBT and to the rights of Srila Prabhupada writings. They had the audacity to say that Srila Prabhupada was a hired writer by ISKCON and that all the literary work he did is ISKCON property and not Srila Prabhupada, it those are your spiritual leaders, if you think those are the people that will liberate you than go ahead and follow their footsteps, it's been obvious that they have hijacked the movement, because of that lawsuit Krishna Books Inc was created, and were granted a license by the BBT to print Srila Prabhupada ORIGINAL books.
Ritviks are not able to give answer. Ofcourse they love to play with cherry picked quotes!
If Srila Prabhupada wants the ritvik system to go for eternity, why is there no such proof in his writing? Give me a clear statement!
Why would Srila Prabhupada neglect to mention something as important as this ritvik system in writing?
Why? Why? Why?
Any sane person should accept this fact that there is no such proof!
75-09-02.Omk Letter: Omkara
"Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that “Prabhupada said.”
68-12-03 Letter: Hamsaduta
"Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program."
From this statement it is abundantly clear that Prabhupada’s mission from the very beginning was to educate his disciples so some of them would become qualified diksa gurus and initiate their own disciples. He wants to transfer the title of Bhaktivedanta and the power to preach and accept disciples to his disciples. He clearly states that “this is my program.” The qualification is there… One must pass the examination on all the books… “Our students must be well versed in all of our books so they are prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization.”
Considering the statements of Srila Prabhupada quoted above and the hundreds of others along the same lines it is completely bizarre for Krishna Kant to claim: “There is no evidence of Srila Prabhupada issuing specific orders for his disciples to become diksa gurus.” It is the statement of a crazy fellow.
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 and that's why I am asking, there are plenty of letter dating from 73 mentioning the term Ritvik, July 9th letter so best piece of eviden and Srila Prabhupada Will. I ask of you to prove where in any of srila Prabhupada books does it mention that Gurus are appointed by votes and not qualifications. Tamala Krishna himself said he and his God brothers are conditioned souls, why than after Srila Prabhupada departure would they be eligible. It was clear Srila Prabhupada knew even his most senior devotee wasn't qualified for them to be Acharya, in that same conversation Srila Prabhupada says he is waiting for qualified person for him to say you be guru. Since there wasn't really a candidate he made the ritvik system which was put in place and His presence and in July 9th letter says "Henceforward" 4 months later Srila Prabhupada left this planet, presumably He was poisoned by these same devotees, notably Tamala Krishna. Have you heard these recordings from Vrindavan, have you seen the proof that Srila Prabhupada had too much cadium in His system, couldn't have been from atmosphere.... Srila Prabhupada is Diksa, Jagat guru Spiritual Master of the whole world! The last Acharya in the discipular line, it is known His books will be the reference these 10,000 golden years. After that it's all left to Kali. Sri Chaitanya is considered to be Krsnas mercy personified, he made just an easy path to follow. Well Srila Prabhupada is Sri Chaitanyas mercy personified, he is the mercy of there mercy, he made the easiest path of them all, chant 16 rounds and follow 4 principles. There is no more Prabhu, and why can't you answer what I should do than. I have never met any of these bogus gurus, yet I am being told to surrender to one of them because I can't surrender to Prabhupada, even though we know Spiritual Master lives through Vani!!
Opposing team got bodied, Ritvik is what Srila Prabhupada wanted.... 11 years ago when I met ISKCON I read Srila Prabhupadas books, and got convinced with the philosophy, couldn't find a hole or an unanswered question in all of His books, conversations and letters. I never met any of these 'gurus' anytime they would come to the temple I wouldn't go (I'm in Latin America). So I wanted to take things more serious, start to live with devotees and get initiated but I was told by other initiated devotees that I couldn't accept His Divine Grace because he is not alive, instead I should accept a 'guru' that is alive. So illogical to me because I understood you would surrender your life to your Guru and I felt Srila Prabhupada was my guru because everything is in his books, and his instruction is alive. So I decided to leave and not come back because it didn't make sense to accept a person that didn't benefit my life in any way, or showed me the path... It's so unmotivating, but I'm glad to see this and other people come out with the same thoughts, at that time I really felt like I was crazy.
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 EXACTLY THEY HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED!!! AND TAMALA KRSNA HIMSELF SAYS THAT HE AND HIS GOD BROTHERS AREN'T QUALIFIED AND SRILA PRABHUPADA AGREES!!!! What makes you think that after Srila Prabhupada departure that they would be fit? Really the evidence is all there. Best thing you can do is give out Srila Prabhupada books, direct everyone to his books, be an audio book for the people. That's how you really become servant of the servant not by trying to take his position... A pure devotee is such a rare thing, out of millions and millions of souls only one reaches that platform.... I didn't know you can reach it by casting a vote in the GBC
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 ok so tell me Prabhu why weren't his God brothers also Acharya?
And tell me in my case why should I accept someone else as spiritual Diksa guru just because he is alive when I was convinced and feel thankful and relationship with Srila Prabhupada. I was told I have to accept someone because I can't accept Srila Prabhupada even though it is his teachings that I follow.
Now in his will he says that he appoints certain devotees in charge of different temples and properties and it's for life until they die, than another devotee can be appointed but has to be and initiated devotee of Srila Prabhupada. So when all of Srila Prabhupadas initiated devotees die than the whole system dies with them? I really don't see how you can't see that Srila Prabhupada will forever accept devotees, he is jagat guru, spiritual master of the whole world.
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 so it's in writing that he left a ritvik system, no where is there in writing that a guru becomes Diksa guru by votes, now that's pathetic. You can accept anyone you want, remember if he is not really connected to the source will he really deliver you?
And can you tell me why I should accept a guru I don't even know when all I have done is read srila Prabhupada books and I believe because of him. But they try to make me forcefully bond and accept someone I don't even know and hasn't benefitted me in any way....
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 it's by vote,GBC votes who is diksa guru. Didn't know that was bonified.
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 he often said his God brothers weren't fit for Acharya, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta instructed Srila Prabhupada. Why aren't his God brothers also Acharya, weren't they all suppose to be guru's as well?
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 I understand you are probably "initiated" by one of these guru's and that's why you'll defend them. But it's all logic , our gaudiya history starting from Krsna has only 32 personalities, there are hundreds of years with holes. It is not that is has to forcefully go on. Srila Prabhupada left the easiest path! His books will be the norm these 10,000 years after that it's all left to Kali yuga
Both are possible. Our disciplic succession has many gaps, going all the way back to Krsna 5000 years ago. The problem rests on being able to identify a genuine Pure Devotee.
@biren5445 And did he appoint anyone? He only appointed RITVIKS, it would be silly to think that he wouldn't know that his departure was near, 4 months after July 9 letter he left this planet. It is very clear in that letter that they would be representatives of the Acharya...
What about the present system of appointing guru's by votes, where is that ever mentioned?.... There is siksha guru and diksha guru, anyone who imparts knowledge is a guru, I see the person who introduced me to ISKCON as a guru, but that person directed me to Srila Prabhupadas books, it is only his books that convinced me of everything, why should I need to accept someone else who hasn't benefitted my life in any way. Why should I devote my mind and will to someone I don't know just because Srila Prabhupadas isn't physically present. He would say it's the instruction not his presence. He in his on lifetime only saw his spiritual master twice....
(JULY 9 1977) THE RITVIK ORDER IS GIVEN OUT, HOW CAN YOU DEBATE? Why can't you answer about the 90s lawsuit from BBTI? How can you be so blind 🦯? Leader in ISKCON literally said in court the Srila Prabhupada was just a hired writer, the audacity. I understand that you must be initiated by one of these guru's, it's probably why you defend something so blindly....
Our Sampradaya is Bhagavata- Parampara, descends from Krsna himself, only 32 names in whole list steming from Krsna, sooooo many years and only 32 names, our Parampara is not based in just Diksa, why hasn't any of ISKCON BOGUS GURU PUT THEIR NAME AFTER SRILA PRABHUPADA?
Now did you know BBTI tried suing Hansadutta in the 90s trying to get access to the BBT and to the rights of Srila Prabhupada writings. They had the audacity to say that Srila Prabhupada was a hired writer by ISKCON and that all the literary work he did is ISKCON property and not Srila Prabhupada, it those are your spiritual leaders, if you think those are the people that will liberate you than go ahead and follow their footsteps, it's been obvious that they have hijacked the movement, because of that lawsuit Krishna Books Inc was created, and were granted a license by the BBT to print Srila Prabhupada ORIGINAL books.
Ritviks are not able to give answer. Ofcourse they love to play with cherry picked quotes!
If Srila Prabhupada wants the ritvik system to go for eternity, why is there no such proof in his writing? Give me a clear statement!
Why would Srila Prabhupada neglect to mention something as important as this ritvik system in writing?
Why? Why? Why?
Any sane person should accept this fact that there is no such proof!
75-09-02.Omk Letter: Omkara
"Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that “Prabhupada said.”
68-12-03 Letter: Hamsaduta
"Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program."
From this statement it is abundantly clear that Prabhupada’s mission from the very beginning was to educate his disciples so some of them would become qualified diksa gurus and initiate their own disciples. He wants to transfer the title of Bhaktivedanta and the power to preach and accept disciples to his disciples. He clearly states that “this is my program.” The qualification is there… One must pass the examination on all the books… “Our students must be well versed in all of our books so they are prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization.”
Considering the statements of Srila Prabhupada quoted above and the hundreds of others along the same lines it is completely bizarre for Krishna Kant to claim: “There is no evidence of Srila Prabhupada issuing specific orders for his disciples to become diksa gurus.” It is the statement of a crazy fellow.
And tell me in my case why should I accept someone else as spiritual Diksa guru just because he is alive when I was convinced and feel thankful and relationship with Srila Prabhupada. I was told I have to accept someone because I can't accept Srila Prabhupada even though it is his teachings that I follow.
Now in his will he says that he appoints certain devotees in charge of different temples and properties and it's for life until they die, than another devotee can be appointed but has to be and initiated devotee of Srila Prabhupada. So when all of Srila Prabhupadas initiated devotees die than the whole system dies with them? I really don't see how you can't see that Srila Prabhupada will forever accept devotees, he is jagat guru, spiritual master of the whole world.
And can you tell me why I should accept a guru I don't even know when all I have done is read srila Prabhupada books and I believe because of him. But they try to make me forcefully bond and accept someone I don't even know and hasn't benefitted me in any way....
What about the present system of appointing guru's by votes, where is that ever mentioned?.... There is siksha guru and diksha guru, anyone who imparts knowledge is a guru, I see the person who introduced me to ISKCON as a guru, but that person directed me to Srila Prabhupadas books, it is only his books that convinced me of everything, why should I need to accept someone else who hasn't benefitted my life in any way. Why should I devote my mind and will to someone I don't know just because Srila Prabhupadas isn't physically present. He would say it's the instruction not his presence. He in his on lifetime only saw his spiritual master twice....