Human Guru worship is so horrible to witness. Bowing to human men, their murtis, their statues, their photos,... so so hard and disturbing to watch.
I honestly have a very hard time seeing this. As a born and bred Texan I have always felt so uncomfortable with this and it looks so bizarre for humans to be bowing to human men. Extremely disturbing to watch. It's so extremely disrespectful to Our Devatas. We're humans... we're men... flawed men by natural order. To personify godhood allowing your disciples to kneel and bow at your feet is so disrespectful to our Devatas. I simply will never ever bow to any man. No human is to be bowed to ever. We're Not God's or Goddess. Our Divine are God's and Goddesses. Not demi-gods, God's and Goddesses. They dwell amongst each other in the pantheon of our Great Divine. No such thing as Demigods like Hare Krishna cults like to refer to them. They're either Devatas or not, there is no inbetween. There is no "demi" about them. But this whole Guru worship thing here... Extremely disturbing. The truest of Gurus will never allow their disciples or anyone to bow at their feet. Nothing and no one can really justify how really gross this is.
All Glories to Mahadev 🔱
Har Har Mahadev 🔱
Dude, you are SOOO confused ! But keep praying the Lord Siva. He is also called Asutosha, or easily pleased. Eventually, your confusion will be lifted up !
my favorite Prabhupada quote is where he says women like to be raped, Children can be beaten, blacks should be slaves and that he was 22 years old when he honeymooned his 11 year old child bride. what is yours?
Provide evidence. Otherwise, these are just gratuitous statements.
Oh, and if you find anything that remotely resembles what you claim, don't forget to provide the context.
Otherwise, you know, for example, somebody might read your post and conclude that you like to read things where women are raped, children are beaten and blacks are slaves, and let the world know that @ItsMikeSandovalsYouTubeChannel is a creep.
He was not any of the titles that he has been introduced with. He was never authorized by Srila Prabhupada to act as a diksa guru. He admitted this much himself in 1980 at the Pyramid House in Topanga Canyon in California.
BHAKTI SIDDHANT SARASWATI WRITES IN 'TRUE CONCEPTION OF SRI GURU TATTVA' AS FOLLOWES:
"This line of guru-parampara is existing up to today without any break and it will continue to exist like this in the future also. To say 'there is no bonafide Guru living in the world at present and neither will there be any in the future,' is an atheistic opinion."
@DD-su5ht You must not have been around for very long. Or maybe you have not dwelt on the guru/ritvik subject for very long.
Your argument of "why not taking diksa from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta or Lord Brahma directy?" has been answered authoritatively countless times in the past decades. You have not heard? The answer is vey simple.
It is Srila Prabhupada Himself that established the ritvik system of initiations in His Iskcon starting gradually in 1970.
Therefore, this system is to be used in relation to Him and to Him alone.
Speculating that His July 9th order or directive can be used to take diksa from any of the predecessor acharyas in the sampradaya is only that, a speculation
From 1970 to 1977, Srila Prabhupada gradually delegated the performance of the 4 external functions of the initiation process:
1) identifying the suitable candidates based of the conditions He had established (4 regs and 16 rounds a day for 6 to 12 months), 2) presiding over the fire sacrifice, 3) chanting on the beads and 4) giving the spiritual name.
And, although He delegated these external steps from 1970 to 1977, there was no doubt in everybody's mind that the new initiates were Srila Prabhupada's disciples.
No predecessor acharya has ever authorized such a system to receive initiation from them, therefore this argument that the ritvik system can be used as a pretext to receive diksa from anyone else is shallow at best.
Srila Prabhupada had seen first hand the mess that His Godbrothers created with the Gaudiya Math by disobeying the instructions of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta (to create a GBC) and letting their ambition to be big gurus get the best of them.
Srila Prabhupada wanted to prevent that from happening with His Iskcon. He expressed clearly, in the few months before His departure, that none of His disciples were qualified to be His successor(s).
Listen to the recording of the conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Tamal Krsna swami recorded on April 22nd 1977. In that conversation, Srila Prabhupada is asking Tamal whether he knew that Hansadutta was causing trouble in Germany (He was trying to be a guru even before Srila Prabhupada left the planet).
Srila Prabhupada said "What is the use of producing some rascal gurus... You can cheat but you will not be effective".
And Tamal himself admitted in that same conversation that he and all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples were still conditioned souls and, therefore, could not be diksa guru.
And Srila Prabhupada was no fool. He knew the people that had come to Him and where they were at. So, He instituted a system of initiation which He tested from 1970 to 1977.
And, in 1977, witnessing His health declining fast, He ordered the entire GBC to come to Vrindavan to ask some, possibly, last questions.
18 of the 23 GBC members at the time made it to Vrindavan. They had a meeting among themselves and came up with 5 questions, all of which pertained to a time when Srila Prabhupada would no longer be with us. They wanted to know/confirm how to run things after Srila Prabhupada's departure.
Question #3 was,"We want to know how to conduct 1st and 2nd initiations, specifically at a time when you (Srila Prabhupada) is no longer with us?"
Srila Prabhupada answered immediately, "I shall name some of you to act as officiating acharyas".
Then Tamal Krsna asked, "Is this called ritvik acharya?"
Srila Prabhupada replied, "Ritvik, yes?"
Then, in June 1977, there is a recorded conversation where Srila Prabhupada dictates to Tamal Krsna the names of the devotees to act as ritviks.
And that is the background of the July 9th directive.
The 11 ritviks have been named by Srila Prabhupada Himself, not self-appointed like you stated.
Please know your history.
Everybody has access to Goggle nowadays. So, you have no excuse to still be uninformed.
I honestly have a very hard time seeing this. As a born and bred Texan I have always felt so uncomfortable with this and it looks so bizarre for humans to be bowing to human men. Extremely disturbing to watch. It's so extremely disrespectful to Our Devatas. We're humans... we're men... flawed men by natural order. To personify godhood allowing your disciples to kneel and bow at your feet is so disrespectful to our Devatas. I simply will never ever bow to any man. No human is to be bowed to ever. We're Not God's or Goddess. Our Divine are God's and Goddesses. Not demi-gods, God's and Goddesses. They dwell amongst each other in the pantheon of our Great Divine. No such thing as Demigods like Hare Krishna cults like to refer to them. They're either Devatas or not, there is no inbetween. There is no "demi" about them. But this whole Guru worship thing here... Extremely disturbing. The truest of Gurus will never allow their disciples or anyone to bow at their feet. Nothing and no one can really justify how really gross this is.
All Glories to Mahadev 🔱
Har Har Mahadev 🔱
Oh, and if you find anything that remotely resembles what you claim, don't forget to provide the context.
Otherwise, you know, for example, somebody might read your post and conclude that you like to read things where women are raped, children are beaten and blacks are slaves, and let the world know that @ItsMikeSandovalsYouTubeChannel is a creep.
"This line of guru-parampara is existing up to today without any break and it will continue to exist like this in the future also. To say 'there is no bonafide Guru living in the world at present and neither will there be any in the future,' is an atheistic opinion."
Your argument of "why not taking diksa from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta or Lord Brahma directy?" has been answered authoritatively countless times in the past decades. You have not heard? The answer is vey simple.
It is Srila Prabhupada Himself that established the ritvik system of initiations in His Iskcon starting gradually in 1970.
Therefore, this system is to be used in relation to Him and to Him alone.
Speculating that His July 9th order or directive can be used to take diksa from any of the predecessor acharyas in the sampradaya is only that, a speculation
From 1970 to 1977, Srila Prabhupada gradually delegated the performance of the 4 external functions of the initiation process:
1) identifying the suitable candidates based of the conditions He had established (4 regs and 16 rounds a day for 6 to 12 months), 2) presiding over the fire sacrifice, 3) chanting on the beads and 4) giving the spiritual name.
And, although He delegated these external steps from 1970 to 1977, there was no doubt in everybody's mind that the new initiates were Srila Prabhupada's disciples.
No predecessor acharya has ever authorized such a system to receive initiation from them, therefore this argument that the ritvik system can be used as a pretext to receive diksa from anyone else is shallow at best.
Srila Prabhupada had seen first hand the mess that His Godbrothers created with the Gaudiya Math by disobeying the instructions of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta (to create a GBC) and letting their ambition to be big gurus get the best of them.
Srila Prabhupada wanted to prevent that from happening with His Iskcon. He expressed clearly, in the few months before His departure, that none of His disciples were qualified to be His successor(s).
Listen to the recording of the conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Tamal Krsna swami recorded on April 22nd 1977. In that conversation, Srila Prabhupada is asking Tamal whether he knew that Hansadutta was causing trouble in Germany (He was trying to be a guru even before Srila Prabhupada left the planet).
Srila Prabhupada said "What is the use of producing some rascal gurus... You can cheat but you will not be effective".
And Tamal himself admitted in that same conversation that he and all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples were still conditioned souls and, therefore, could not be diksa guru.
And Srila Prabhupada was no fool. He knew the people that had come to Him and where they were at. So, He instituted a system of initiation which He tested from 1970 to 1977.
And, in 1977, witnessing His health declining fast, He ordered the entire GBC to come to Vrindavan to ask some, possibly, last questions.
18 of the 23 GBC members at the time made it to Vrindavan. They had a meeting among themselves and came up with 5 questions, all of which pertained to a time when Srila Prabhupada would no longer be with us. They wanted to know/confirm how to run things after Srila Prabhupada's departure.
Question #3 was,"We want to know how to conduct 1st and 2nd initiations, specifically at a time when you (Srila Prabhupada) is no longer with us?"
Srila Prabhupada answered immediately, "I shall name some of you to act as officiating acharyas".
Then Tamal Krsna asked, "Is this called ritvik acharya?"
Srila Prabhupada replied, "Ritvik, yes?"
Then, in June 1977, there is a recorded conversation where Srila Prabhupada dictates to Tamal Krsna the names of the devotees to act as ritviks.
And that is the background of the July 9th directive.
The 11 ritviks have been named by Srila Prabhupada Himself, not self-appointed like you stated.
Please know your history.
Everybody has access to Goggle nowadays. So, you have no excuse to still be uninformed.