The Iskcon gurus today act as ritviks whether they admit it or not. They all say chant 16 rounds, follow 4 regulations, read Srila Prabhupada's and follow his instruction. The real reason the living guru system is so adamantly advocated by Iskcon is because it provides power, money and control, not out of altruistic spiritual concerns. Anyone who has read Prabhupada's books and understands the science of self realization will know that mundane physicality is not at all necessary for spiritual development.
@matt28767 Dear friend, that is the whole point of Diksha, it is for neophytes mainly (which is basically everyone when they start), hence physically present Guru is required because they neither have the vision to see the un-manifest Gurus, nor the vision to see the Lord. It’s common sense really. Unfortunately, it’s not so common anymore.
You are talking great words without any knowledge. We come in the Bhagavata parampara, as opposed to Diksha parampara. In our parampara Shiksha is given higher importance, as can be seen from our parampara list in “Bhagavta Gita as it is”. We have omitted the diksha Gurus and written the Shiksha Gurus in multiple places in that list. Also in the Bhagavatm, Shukadev Goswami liberated Parikshit maharaj through Shiksha, not by giving Diksha. So from one angle, no Diksha is required as per Gaudiya theology. But from another angle, because all of us are of such low intelligence, it is recommended to take Diksha following the Pancharatrika system, and like that do Sadhana-Bhakti. So if one wants to take Diksha, it must be from a physically present Guru. There is no question about it. Taking Diksha from photo was neither established by Prabhupada, nor was it followed as a system in any bonafide smpradaya before this, and nor is it in any Shastra. From all angles ritvik is bogus. It is just a sentimental reaction to a negative event.
Listening to this in 2025, it sounds like they destroyed the tapes with the clear instructions of the Ācārya, then put Satsvarupa up to getting the tape they needed — leading to a contradictory and confusing picture. What is clear is that "successor ācāryas" and their sycophants were liars, conditioned souls, and actively collaborated in a conspiracy to usurp Śrīla Prabhupāda's movement.
So now you rely on "missing" evidence which nobody has ever seen? What kind of wishful thinking is this, mental gymnastics overload. Pull your head out of ignorance and see the facts from available evidence. Prabhupada appointed Ritvik-acharyas on July 9th. That's a new phrase not mentioned in any Shastra, so we must see how Prabhupada himself defined "Ritvik-acharya". Well in May 28th convo, he clearly defined it as a formality in physical presence of Guru. Still if you have doubts, because it is not clear from his letters etc., then we must go to Shastra (and not invent missing tapes). Nowhere in Prabhupada's books is this system of initiation promoted. We can not ascertain post-samadhi ritvik system from his July 9th letter alone (as i stated), nor can we see any prescedent for it occuring in our sampradaya before (or any bonafide sampradaya for that matter), nor is it mentioned in scriptures. So POST-SAMADHI Ritvik system is indeed BOGUS.
1:02:37 JAS speaks as if he has knowledge but it is just bluff. This whole meeting was just a speculation. The actual process would have been to bring the eleven gurus in front of the deities and tell the truth about what Prabhupada had told them. Prabhupada: "And it is the system still now in India, if there is some disagreement or quarrel between two parties, so still they would go to the temple — temple is dharma-kṣetra — so that one may not dare to speak lie in front of the Deity. This was still going on. Even one is very low in mentality, still, if he is challenged that "You are talking this false. Now speak before the Deity," he will hesitate, "No." This is India still. You cannot speak lies before the Deity."
Sentimental response, nothing less expected from a ritvik.
The Iskcon gurus today act as ritviks whether they admit it or not. They all say chant 16 rounds, follow 4 regulations, read Srila Prabhupada's and follow his instruction. The real reason the living guru system is so adamantly advocated by Iskcon is because it provides power, money and control, not out of altruistic spiritual concerns. Anyone who has read Prabhupada's books and understands the science of self realization will know that mundane physicality is not at all necessary for spiritual development.
@achyutananda8453 You are just straw-manning bro. The topic is "Did prabhupada enforce a post-samadhi ritcik system" (He did not). The topic of "Is editing Prabhupada's books correct", is a DIFFERENT topic, and hardly even related.
Now coming to your straw-man point : I myself use the 1972 version bought at ISKCON, so they do sell it. Although I use this now, my spiritual journey began with the edited version and I read it for many many years and got all my knowledge from it. When I would hear Prabhupada’s lecture, not once did I think that the edited version is not his words. I am against Edits which change the essence, but the edits that were made (although unnecessary) did not change the ideology. But overall, I am against any edits made on Prabhupada's books (apart from the cosmetic ones such as selling mistakes etc).
Regarding ritvik misrepresentation of Prabhupada's words, it is common sense. When Prabhupada talks about accepting a Guru, surrender to him and render service, he is talking about a physically present Guru. Prabhupada's message about continuing the parampara is not through taking diksha from his photo.
The Iskcon gurus today act as ritviks whether they admit it or not. They all say chant 16 rounds, follow 4 regulations, read Srila Prabhupada's and follow his instruction. The real reason the living guru system is so adamantly advocated by Iskcon is because it provides power, money and control, not out of altruistic spiritual concerns. Anyone who has read Prabhupada's books and understands the science of self realization will know that mundane physicality is not at all necessary for spiritual development.
@achyutananda8453 It's not correct to edit, but, the edits do not alter Prabhupada's core message, at all. The meaning is maintained intact. But RItviks reinterpret prabhupada's books teachings to justify their ritvik stance, although there is ZERO mention of this. READ BG 4.34 !!!!
Simple logic....A guru can never fall down and a fall down cannot be a guru.
Then find a bonafide guru to whom you can surrender. Don’t change the method to taking Diksha from Prabhupada without his consultation. Prabhupada is the Shiksha guru.
The Iskcon gurus today act as ritviks whether they admit it or not. They all say chant 16 rounds, follow 4 regulations, read Srila Prabhupada's and follow his instruction. The real reason the living guru system is so adamantly advocated by Iskcon is because it provides power, money and control, not out of altruistic spiritual concerns. Anyone who has read Prabhupada's books and understands the science of self realization will know that mundane physicality is not at all necessary for spiritual development.
Yeah, and one can also understand from his books that he advocated the parampara system, and the necessity of disciplic succession for transfer of knowledge. Nowhere in any of his books has he ever advocated the ritvik system.
You are talking great words without any knowledge. We come in the Bhagavata parampara, as opposed to Diksha parampara. In our parampara Shiksha is given higher importance, as can be seen from our parampara list in “Bhagavta Gita as it is”. We have omitted the diksha Gurus and written the Shiksha Gurus in multiple places in that list. Also in the Bhagavatm, Shukadev Goswami liberated Parikshit maharaj through Shiksha, not by giving Diksha. So from one angle, no Diksha is required as per Gaudiya theology. But from another angle, because all of us are of such low intelligence, it is recommended to take Diksha following the Pancharatrika system, and like that do Sadhana-Bhakti. So if one wants to take Diksha, it must be from a physically present Guru. There is no question about it. Taking Diksha from photo was neither established by Prabhupada, nor was it followed as a system in any bonafide smpradaya before this, and nor is it in any Shastra. From all angles ritvik is bogus. It is just a sentimental reaction to a negative event.
Now coming to your straw-man point : I myself use the 1972 version bought at ISKCON, so they do sell it. Although I use this now, my spiritual journey began with the edited version and I read it for many many years and got all my knowledge from it. When I would hear Prabhupada’s lecture, not once did I think that the edited version is not his words. I am against Edits which change the essence, but the edits that were made (although unnecessary) did not change the ideology. But overall, I am against any edits made on Prabhupada's books (apart from the cosmetic ones such as selling mistakes etc).
Regarding ritvik misrepresentation of Prabhupada's words, it is common sense. When Prabhupada talks about accepting a Guru, surrender to him and render service, he is talking about a physically present Guru. Prabhupada's message about continuing the parampara is not through taking diksha from his photo.