ISKCON Defeats Ritvik Initiation? -- Disciple of my Disciple - Hare Krishna Guru Controversy

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madhu

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Srila Prabhupada
This is the official ISKCON presentation as to how they imagine Prabhupada wanted initiations in ISKCON to go on after he physically departed in 1977.
The ISKCON view is that Prabhupada appointed 11 successor gurus. But unfortunatly they all turned out to be somewhat less than the self-realized non-different from god acharyas they were posing as.
It all came to a head in the 1980s and 1990s when the ISKCON self-appointed "acharyas" started falling like flies. So what to do? ISKCON's answer was "MORE GURUS". We will give you hundreds of gurus to choose from now, not just 11.
And ISKCON's idea of the qualification of a guru, acharya??? Well no qualifications at all required actually, except of course total surrender to the GBC...
The result is chaos...
Here we see Tamal Krishna, one of the 11 "successor acharyas" who preached "Prabhupada has put me in such a powerful possition, if you want to come to Krishna you have to go through me..." To in this video saying "Prabhupada never appointed any gurus....."
Back in the day every year the ISKCON GBC were putting out urgent requests to the pandits in the movement to please come up with some sastric justification to show what they were doing in regard to guru has some validity. But unfortunatly no one was ever able to find any shastric support at all for the rubbish system that goes on today as "GURU" in ISKCON.
Actually there are no Gurus in ISKCON. No Guru in ISKCON actually has any authority to guide his disciples and he can not purely present the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, because that would be against the rules the GBC have put in place to control their gurus.
So ISKCON gurus are not at all representing Prabhupada and Krishna, they are representing the GBC.....
It is a horribly bogus system...
Anyhow I am sure there is some historical value in this strange video.

44 Comments Show filtered: 2

Emory Horace 9 months agoOnly Srila Prabhupada is the bona fide

diksha guru in Iskcon.
A.B. BLUE FRANCES 11 months agoI'm not initiate, nor know all the ritvik history, etc, so from this place l think this, if just for some; you want to chant, chant, you want to share, share carefully knowledge, prasad, friendship, whatever good grace you can. You go home or to friends' homes and do nice things and talk of God and each other wisely and worship, chant, dance, read together, listen to recordings, discuss, and not judge who is most spiritual or boss guru among friends, but instead help one another in love, hosting practices. This is how you belong in relationships.

Organization and order of business is different. That's jobs.

I don't know, yet l hope it helps if needed.

🎶✌🏼💙🙏🏼🎶
Radha Bhaav 11 months ago21:08 (21:16)😂24:52😂(25:04)
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Radha Bhaav 11 months ago17:42
Radha Bhaav 11 months agoIn ritvikwad group Their leader that crow Misguides them saying that wherever there is instruction about becoming spiritual master it is to be taken as about becoming shiksha guru not diksha guru😂. But here srila prabhupad is talking about making disciples n becoming 12 th generation of Acharyas, so here is clear that shiksha gurus never make disciples n only diksha guru does that. So now how these ritviks will say that here also srila prabhupad is talking about shiksha guru not about Acharya a diksha guru😂
- durga kolli 11 months agoIt’s not misguide. It’s shredding light on the devotees who have been cheated so far . If you do not want followers and fame , then why can’t the current gurus be Sikhsa gurus instead of Diksha gurus as per Prabhupada last order. Different guru disciples fight with each other and there is a exam to become a guru. Who invented this system? The bogus gurus? Anyone disobey the final order of pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada , fall down is waiting for them. Srila Prabhupada never die, he guides all his disciples who have faith on him.
- Radha Bhaav 11 months ago@kollidurgastill you are repeating the same thing 😮 do you even understand what srila Prabhupada is saying in this whole video?
- Krishna Tube 11 months agoSrila Prabhupada is not saying anything in this video? All that is given is a few Prabhupada quotes carefully selected to try and "prove" that Prabhupada appointed 11 successor acharyas, who have now long ago fallen down, etc. This video does not mention that there are ANY qualifications required to become and ISKCON "acharya". That is the real point.
  
  Yes. Of course Prabhupada wants all his disciples to become acharyas and initiate disciples, your point. But it is not a cheap thing. First the have to become QUALIFIED, means pure unalloyed devotees of Krishna on the topmost, uttama adhikari platform, then they will actually be acharyas.
  
  But that is not ISKCON policy. ISKCON acharyas, the only qualification is they MUST be surrendered servants of the GBC....
  
  So a real acharya, a real guru, he will never surrender to the GBC, he will be surrendered to Prabhupada and Krishna.
  
  Therefore there THERE ARE NO REAL GURUS IN ISKCON...
- Radha Bhaav 11 months ago@KrishnaTuberitviks:a real acharya will not follow GBC?😂
  
  Srila Prabhupada: follow GBC😂
- Radha Bhaav 11 months ago@KrishnaTuberitviks understanding: srila Prabhupada is not speaking in this video 😂
  
  Any sane person: srila Prabhupada is only speaking through his quotes in this video.😂 Also srila Prabhupada is speaking hear 17:42😂
Radha Bhaav 11 months ago13:42
Sawyer 11 months agoPlease watch this

*Prabhupāda's Ṛtvik System As It Is - (Hindi Subs)*

https://youtu.be/rxodlaOGmGM?si=bRfjO6y-ukgdhQb3
life is dull 11 months agoSrila Prabhupada also used to say that Guru means not only a Chaita Guru aur Shiksha Guru it can also bi Diksha Guru also please today's current Guru generation which is given us by Srila Prabhupada please don't miss this opportunity take initiations from them although I am not a Sanyasi although I am not kind of this person who is like on a Sanyasi level but please I have read this theory and I would say that please take the living Gurus don't try to do this kind of mistake what these disciples have done by leaving their Guru
life is dull 11 months agoThe ritvic theory is kind of an abrahamic way to follow the Krishna consciousness sure I am not insulting any other religion like Islam or Christianity I am showing that you are doing this in a wrong way the Parampara continues ahead after Srila Prabhupada Srila Prabhupada wanted that his disciples to become Guru and initiate other people so that they also can become Guru and in this way the Parampara would automatically go ahead read the letters which were given to Tushar Krishnaswamy conversation 7 July and many more conversations were Srila prabhupad is personally telling them to become Guru❤
- Gerold Bendix 11 months agoIt's not a theory, it is the last managerial directive Srila Prabhupada gave on the topic of future initiation.
  
  There is NO official document of a later date which puts it out of function.
  
  So it should be followed... simple thing.
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Sanatana Govinda dasa 11 months agohttps://youtu.be/ElqdPVj5ebg?si=JqqtrGa_G4qoLi35
Nanda Gauranga 11 months agoHare Krsna. Thank you very much for the video. ❤❤❤
Marie Bentz 11 months agoRitvik means priest. So the title of your video is:

ISKCON defeats priest initiation, or priestly initiation which makes no sense since all initiating gurus are in fact monks or priests. Stop this & start focussing on Prabhupada & build more farms! There are too few, not very many for the amount of famines that will happen eventually in this world. Food shortages will get worse, and you won’t be prepared for them when all you do is argue about the word priest. Stop creating sectarian divisions & work on unity through food security. How about that?
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- Spirit Soul 11 months agoYes! This is exactly my point and comment. Perhaps we need to make some online place where we can talk and share about this seriously and gather enthusiasm and knowledge about it!
Marie Bentz 11 months agoI meant why be so critical against the word “ritvik”? Prabhupada used that word to explain to Satsvarupa Maharaja what an officiating Achariya will be to initiate others after his departure. There’s nothing wrong with this word! It simply means priest. What’s wrong with that-can somebody please explain that to me? My suspicion now is that this word is only used to force all people to only accept an ISKCON guru? Is that what this is all about? Mmm…
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Marie Bentz 11 months agoPrabhupada did appoint officiating Achariyas to initiate after his departure. Same as “ritvik”. Why do you play with words? Or get so attached about that word & give it a negative nature wgdd ed n all it means is priest, and is a word used for thousands of years in India. Stop demo using a word that has a good meaning. What’s so wrong with the word priest? You’re being unbecessariky critical of nothing. I cannot even comprehend why you’d be focussed on this so much instead of on Krishna? Is it because you’re so attached in creating a sectarian division, or a conflict? Seems like it! You cannot force everybody to think like you. Chant Hare Krishna & be happy! 🙏 ❤
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BinduMadhavaDas 11 months agoI'm just happy we're still a movement after the '90s. I was just talking to my father-in-law about our history which he has no clue of. That we almost lost our temples in the US. And just this weekend in Baltimore we had 8 to 10,000 people come through. One question for everyone? If one is correct and one is not correct, maybe we should ask. Why did it happen?? What's the deeper lesson and why are we getting caught up in the fallacy of who's right or who's wrong? We are supposed to rise above dualities and see things as they are and love everyone as the Jiva. So what's the separation teaching us??
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- Spirit Soul 11 months agoI like your perspective Prabhu.
  
  I like how the Vedas say: judge by results.
  
  Can this help us understand the situation more clearly?
- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months ago@peace_on_earth_999@peace_on_earth_999 IMHO Yes an No,we have to be very careful to judge the results.. it really depends on our approach. Are we confirming our biases? Or are we taking all the information possible to make the most objective compassionate decision?.. The ego can be tricky.For me, when I look at the Bangalore Temple I see a thriving community and if I would judge by the results I would say they're doing great.. but when I see the emotional entanglement of the ego regarding both sides.. The lack of philosophical depth on a psychological and holistic level.. secularism runs rampant within both communities and an air of arrogance. For me this is an internal process of self-realization that I've started to realize is lonely.. cuz the ego always wants to feel comforted by the external. Devotee's don't even realize that they get hijacked.. these moments are not meant to be defined by right or wrong. But they are meant to define us by our reaction. Krishna points out do your duty they'll be attached to the results. So it's in action where we resolved the moment. For me it's to ask deeper questions that go beyond the fallacies of the identity self. When sometimes when you think we reach the spiritual plateau it's just another spiritual ego and we still have to die to that. They also think limbering complete darkness on the depths of our life. We have every opportunity to rise to the top cuz when you're at the bottom there's nowhere else to go. We have to invert our thinking to understand sometimes the baddest giving us something good...
- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months ago@peace_on_earth_999I like that point Prabhu, and certainly results can tell part of the story. At the same time, Krishna reminds us in the Gītā (2.47) that we have a right to perform our duty, but not to the fruits of action. Judging only by results can be a fallacy, because both sides may claim success. What really matters is our dharma and our reaction to what happens—whether we serve with humility, rise above ego, and cultivate love and unity. Maybe the real test isn’t about proving who’s right or wrong, but about how Krishna is teaching us to respond.
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- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months ago@peace_on_earth_999by the way, are you part of the new Krishna farm in Georgia?
- Spirit Soul 11 months ago@BinduMadhavaDasLoveAllno Prabhu, but happy to hear there is one! Do they practice Permaculture?
- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months ago@peace_on_earth_999it looks like they're practicing some type of healthy practices. I'm all about the permaculture... They have a pretty big following on Instagram right now.
Spirit Soul 11 months agoYo we need to be building farms fast! Who cares if you're initiated or not? You love Prabhupada? We're in the same boat. Let's go!
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- Spirit Soul 11 months agoPermaculture Food Forests, and Off-grid Passive Housing can be utilised for maximising Simple Living. Not the only ways ofc but really these are the discussions ISKCON should be having. Jyotishis are announcing what SP announced long ago, people will become jobless, and they will come to our farms to become Krishna Conscious. Who wants to enter a house that is in war with itself? I think we can get over this and focus on the important stuff. Perhaps we can mention this in the soon-to-arrive global survey that the GBC is preparing? Jay Prabupada! Hare Krishna
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- life is dull 11 months agoHare Krishna we are in the same boat you are right we can interact with those with Ritwik devotees but on philosophical point we should not be like oh it's ok let it be if there is blaspheming of devotees you should speak
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- Spirit Soul 11 months ago@lifeisdull3456 Yes! Absolutely noone should blaspheme devotees of the Lord who have dedicated their life to spreading of the Holy Name. 😊 Haribol! Thanks for writing!
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- Radha Bhaav 11 months agoEither you are not following srila prabhupad or you are following srila prabhupad.
  
  You can't say that even if I am half wrong still call me full right😂
- Spirit Soul 11 months ago@radhabhaav9217 For almost 50 years things have been going on differently, can we change things overnight?
Franco 11 months agoOm shanti om hare krisna ❤🎉❤
Visal G 11 months agoa Rtvik IS a Guru. A representative of the Guru is also a Guru. So why is this subject so active?
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- intrinsicfreedom 11 months agoHumans are endlessly restless, that's why.
- Marshmalloni 11 months agoRitvik is a priest, not a guru. He might be a siksa-guru, but not a diksa-guru. You cannot be a diksa-guru until you get an order from God. Diksa-guru means uttama-adhikari. You cannot become uttama by voting.
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Hrôduuulf, son of Hrôdgêr 11 months agoThe rtviks were correct. Srila Prabhupada was the last pure devotee. All of the later gurus fell down or will fall down. I was a disciple of the strongest, Satsvarupa dasa Goswami, and even he fell down. I side with the Rtviks now. If Satsvarupa cannot maintain his vows, no one can.
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- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months agoAs a son of two disciples of Satsvarupa watching this go by my whole life as I grow from youth to old age. I find a blanket statement as saying srila prabhupada was the last pure devotee a stretch. To say, a pure devotee can't produce pure devotee's is a fallacy which denies prabhupada his pure status. And who is actually in a position to call someone pure? That in itself is a pride fallacy. I think the nuances are more in depth between Temple presidents versus gbcs. The GBC versus swami's. Etc etc.. system protecting the child abusers banishing the victims. Second generation 3rd generation and 4th generation Will survive and as you can see today nothing is stopping this movement.
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- ChakraYudam 11 months agoSatsvarupa das Goswami Never fell down, He only Reduced his Seva Responsibilities.
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- BinduMadhavaDas 11 months agoThe missionary goal of a devotee is to convert one person to become a pure devotee - srila prabhupada teachings of Lord Chaitanya
- Krishna Tube 11 months agoSatsvarupa, with all due respects, has become crazy, insane. So by definition a crazy insane man is fallen. A devotee in good standing can not be crazy and insane...
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- Krishna Tube 11 months agoIf Srila Prabhupada was the last pure devotee his mission has failed. Obviously Srila Prabhupada was not the last pure devotee and this is ritvik rubbish. Krishna consciousness is eternal. It goes on. Of course pure devotee is VERY RARE and not always available. But Krishna is constantly coming Himself to the material world and sending his representatives, pure devotees, to reestablish the religious principles when they are lost, He does it time and time again. I wonder why the ritviks don't read Bhagavad-gita?
  
  So of course there will be more pure devotees...
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- xochipilli 10 months ago@KrishnaTube lol so true- wonder if some of these devotees defending him have ever read his sex novel or seen his crazy perverted paintings of Lord Chaitanya!
- Oatmeal Man 2 months agoPlease read Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother BR Shridhar Maharaj's book Sri Guru and His Grace, which is available as a free PDF. It exams guru tattva and the process of discipline succession in depth, and explains how sometimes a parampara can appear to be broken within a manmade institution, but continues spiritually elsewhere for those who have eyes to see.