Travel With Srila Prabhupada -- 1975 -- Los Angeles, Melbourne -- Darshan 14

The following is a conversation with His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, recorded on the 8th of October, 1975, in Durban, South Africa. Krishna, the word Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So unless one is all-attractive, he cannot be God.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. Our position, we all living entities, we are all a small particle, equally in quality with God, small. Just like gold, a small particle of gold. Spark.

Spark. Yes. Fire, big fire. And spark, fire.

Both of them fire. But one is big and one is very small. So our relationship with God is eternal. At the present moment, on account of contact with this material energy, we have forgotten our relationship with God.

Therefore, our life is problematic. We are facing so many problems. So again, if we revive our original consciousness, then we shall become happy. So this is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Now, the process how to revive our original consciousness, there are different processes, but at the present moment people are very, very fallen. This is called the age of Kali, means must follow, must follow. The so-called material advancement is not the solution, because God is eternal, we are eternal. And in the material condition, we are changing our body.

On account of our ignorance, we are thinking, I am this body, but I am not this body. I am that spark, spirit, part and parcel of God. The body is just a vehicle. covering vehicle also. It is just like a machine.

You go from one place to another on a motor car machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material condition of life, we are thinking that if I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy.

We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God. So that position we have to revive.

And there are different types of vehicle, aquatic animals, then plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation from vegetation, trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement. we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many.

There are nine lakh forms of body within the water, then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then one million, million, one hundred thousand species of life, like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then we come to the bird's life, three million different forms of… Then we come to beast's life, that is, No, birds, I am sorry. Birds life, one million, and then the beasts life, three million. Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually we become civilized.

So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand what is God, what I am, what is our relationship. So if we don't take advantage of the civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage of this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.

May I ask a few questions? Yes, yes. Do we get a second chance if we don't make the most of this life? In other words, it's reincarnation part of your… Yes, second chance means you have to change your body.

Now, according to your desire, you get another body. That body is not guaranteed that you shall get a human body. If you've been bad enough, you might finish. No.

This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them, according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature.

The material nature is being conducted in three modes, goodness, passion, and ignorance. So just like three colors, yellow, red, and blue, now you mix three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life.

So if we transcend this collaring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness, then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if you do not learn, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life.

And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again. The animal life, the plant life, like that. But again we have to evolve evolutionary forces by nature.

So it may take many millions of years. Therefore a human being must be responsible that I have got this opportunity to get out of this cycle of birth and death and different forms of life and let me properly understand God and what is my relationship with God and act accordingly so that if we understand understand what is God, then we go back to home, back to garden. What can an ordinary man do? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement involves shaving the head and wearing the saffron robe.

What can the man who is caught up in family life do? Saffron rope is not very essential or cut the hair, but it creates some good situation, mental. You see? It's like a military man, when he's dressed properly, he gets some energy to feel like a military man.

But it does not mean that unless you are dressed, you cannot find Him. It does not mean. So God can, consciousness can be revived in any condition, without any check. But these conditions are helpful, helpful.

Therefore, it is prescribed that you live like this, you dress like this, you eat like this, you do like this. These are convenient. These are convenient. So they are not essential.

At the same time, if we take to these processes, then it will be helpful. One can be a student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness while going about his normal daily life. Do you think transcendental meditation is beginning to help a lot of people? They do not know what is meditation.

They simply… It is a farce. That is another cheating process by the so-called samis and yogis. They do not know what is meditation. Do you know what is meditation?

You are asking me the question, but do you know what is meditation? Just stilling of the mind, trying to sit in the center without swinging either way. So what is that center? Then why you are asking me?

You do not know. So everyone does not know what is meditation, and they talk very much, meditation. This is going on. These bluffers, these bluffers, they say meditation, but what is the subject matter of meditation, they do not know.

Simply bogus propaganda. So many birds, eagle birds, they fly and they go from one planet to another. They are resting, just like a bird, you see, they fly from one tree to another tree. So their resting place is one planet to another.

You see, you are trying to go to the moon planet bogusly. I'll say bogusly, because you could not go there. The moon planet is far away from the sun planet. So it is not possible to go there by the so-called jets planet.

No. It is far, far away. It is sixteen hundred thousand minds away from the sun. The modern scientist's calculation is ninety-three million minds.

The sun is situated, and above that, sixteen hundred thousand minds, up there is moon planet. So by the Vedic calculation, it is not possible to go there. By the method we are attempting. That is not possible.

And the proof is that why, if they are going to the moon planet, why they cannot stay there? Now, the argument is that there is no vegetation, the atmosphere is different, where living being cannot stay. They say like that. But from the Vedic information, we understand that moon planet influences vegetation in all other planets.

So if the moon planet helps vegetation in all other planets, how it is there is no vegetation? So there are many things, contradictions, and practically we see they are going to the moon planet, but they cannot stay. Uselessly going and coming. So let them do that.

But we have got our other sources of information that we cannot go to the human planet. We have no new discovery. We don't manufacture. This is our process.

Simply follow the predecessor's instruction. That's all. Our movement is very easy because we haven't got to manufacture something. We simply repeat the words and the instruction given by the predecessor.

Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā, Brahmā instructed Nārada, Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva instructed Madhyācārya, and in this way, then Mādhavendra Puri, Īśvara Puri, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then the six Gosvāmīs, Then the Śrīnivāsa ācārya, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Jagannātha dāsa Bhāvājī, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Gauḍa-kṛṣṇa dāsa Bhāvājī, Bhakti-siddhānta Sarasvatī. and then we are doing the same thing, there is no difference. That is the specific procedure of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are singing daily, guru-bhukha-padma-vākya-cittate-koriya-aikya ārṇā-koriya-mane āśa Very simple thing. We are receiving the transcendental knowledge Through guru-paramparā, succession.

So we have to simply take instruction from guru, and if we execute that to our heart and soul, that is success. That is practical. I have no personal qualification, but I simply tried to satisfy my guru. That's all.

My Guru Mahārāja asked me that if you get some money, you print books. So there was a private meeting, talking, some of my important Godbrothers were also there. It was in Radha-kund. So Guru Mahārāja was speaking to me that since we have got this Bhagavad-gītā, marble temple, there has been so many dissensions. and everyone thinking we occupy this room or that room I wish therefore to sell this temple and the marble and print some book so I took up this from his mom that he is very fond of books and he told me personally that if you get some money print books therefore I am stressing on this point Where is book, where is book, where is book?

So kindly help me. This is my request. Print as many books in as many languages and distribute throughout the whole world. Then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will automatically increase.

Now the educated, learned scholars, They are appreciating our movement by reading books, by taking practical results. Dr. Stillson Judah, he has written one book, perhaps you know, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counter-Culture. There is a very nice book about our movement and he is giving importance.

He has admitted that, Swamiji, you have done wonderful thing, service to the humanity. They are plunged into ignorance. All they are rascals. Mūḍha.

It is not our manufactured word. Kṛṣṇa says, carries different flavor of the physical elements, like the flavor of some flower or the aromatic dust in the flower. And on account of different dust, the air scents in different flavor or accepts different color. Similarly, everyone has got a certain type of desire.

So according to his desire, the Lord appears to him, although such appearance, such form is not his original form. So the demigods are actually not the original form of the Lord, but they are presented to different persons according to their desires. So Dakṣa, he wants to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. He is not interested with the demigods.

Purport, the impersonalists, they imagine the form of the Lord as different demigods. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they worship pancha-pāsaṇa, five demigods. Actually, they do not believe in the form of the Lord, But for the facility of the worshipper, they think one may imagine some form. Generally they imagine the form of Viṣṇu, the form of Śiva, the form of Ganesha, the form of Durga, and the form of sun god, the sun god.

This is called pañca-pāśana. But Dukṣa wanted to worship not that imaginary form, but the supreme form of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Śrīla Viṣṇu Chakravartī Ṭhākura gives in this connection a description of difference of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ordinary living being. So this is, this has been described in the previous verse, sarvam pumāna-vīda-guṇāṁśa-tad-gyaṁ na-vīda-sarvajya-mananta-mīre. So the, the purport is that Supreme Lord, He is omnipotent, omniscient.

He knows everything. But the living being does not know actually what is the position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the difference between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ordinary living being. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, Krishna says, I know everything, but nobody knows Me.

This is the difference. In the Kuntī's prayer in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Queen Kuntī says, My dear Lord, You are existing outside and inside. Still nobody can see You. So conditioned soul cannot understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, neither by speculative knowledge nor by imagination.

One has to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He reveals. He cannot be understood by speculation. This is the verdict of the śāstra, that an ordinary man, maybe a great philosopher, he can speculate on the absolute truth, what he is, what is his form, how he is existing. but he cannot understand.

But a person who has gone through the devotional service, sevarmukhe hi jīvādau, svayam eva śuraty adau, one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead only through devotional service. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is also explained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So less intelligent person, they want to imagine or concoct the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are devotees, they want to worship the actual Personality of Godhead.

Therefore the dakṣa, he prays, the other may think of yourself as impersonal or personal and some imaginary, but I wish to pray to your Lord, saying, you fulfill my desire so that I can see you actually as you are. So that's all. But also not secure. Is that very nice life?

Our motto, Kṛṣṇa is sun, you know? Kṛṣṇa śūrya-śama. So when Kṛṣṇa sun is there, all these glow-arms, lightning, they finish. Keep this sun always shining.

Then these glow-arms will be finished. One, that Sikh, Bhajan, what is that? Yogi Bhajan. Aha.

He came to invite me. Really? In Hawaii? Yes.

He came to our temple a few nights ago also, RT. He has a big following. He came to invite me. I indirectly refused.

Yeah. He has a very big following. You may have two million dollars, I may have ten dollars, you may have hundred dollars. Everyone has got some riches.

That is admitted. But nobody can say that I have got all the riches. That is not possible. If somebody can say that I have got all the riches, he is God.

That is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Nobody has said in the history of the world. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-dhamacāṁ sarva-loka-mahiṣṭharaṁ. I am the enjoyer of everything, and I am the proprietor of all the universe.

Who can say that? That is God. Aishadhyasya samagraṣa. Samagra means total, not that partial, that I have got so much, now I have distributed.

I do not wish to mention by name, one artificial god, he was teaching his disciple, and the disciple was feeling electrical shocks. So unfortunately I cannot give you electrical shocks, you see. Electrical shocks, and he became fainted by electrical shocks. And these are written publicly and foods are accepted.

Why teachers should give electrical shock? Where is, where is that mentioned in the śāstra? But these things are bogus things are stated, electrical shock. And when he fainted, then the God was sitting, and when he got his senses, then the disciple asked God, Sir, why you are crying?

No, I have finished everything. I have given you everything. Just a teacher finishes everything by teaching his disciple? These things are going on.

So Kṛṣṇa is not that kind of God. that I have finished everything. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva śiṣyati. This is definition of God. God is so perfect and full that even if you take all His affluences, still He's full.

That is God. Not that I have finished my stuff. So intelligent man should learn what is God from the Vedic information. Don't manufacture God.

Manufacture, how we can manufacture God? That is not possible. So that is called mana-dharma. By mental concoction, mental speculation, we cannot create God.

Here is the definition of God, that īśāvāsya-midaṁ sarvam . You can, for transfer, receive the check. Is that all right? All right, all right.

I am giving in favor of BBT. Yes. We are acting like you are banked. BBT is acting like you are banked.

Yes, that's right. That is it. Swami's Lakshmi that he collects, each month he is paying to Dainipan. This was a proposal for Back to Godhead magazine, an article. Śātsarūpa Mahārāj wanted you to see it beforehand, that it's to show how I am not this body.

This is a man who's thinking thoughtfully, and he's saying, I'm not this head, I'm not this chest, I'm not this arm like that, just to illustrate it graphically. So, Śātsarūpa Mahārāj... He had some question if he would like it or not. And this is a person who's thinking, I can remember I was a baby sitting on the lap of my mother and now I'm in the middle of my life and I know I will become old and die, but who am I?

I'm not this body which is changing so much. We're trying to put these concepts into visual terms so people can easily understand them. That type is not what it will be printed. That's just to show how the layout will look.

The type will be different, it's just the visual that we are in. I'd love to read it. No, he was, the reading part he was confident about, he simply was wondering about this illustration. He said it was clinical.

And he did not know if he would like it or not. Because it shows the different body parts and the person is thinking, I'm not this head, I'm not this chest, and I'm not this leg. That's what he was mostly concerned with, more than the written. If you like, I can leave the written matter.

I have it with me. Yes. But as far as the illustration, that we plan to have a painting, one of the paintings by the artist. There is no use of seeing.

They also say that no one can ever be pure, that everyone is doomed to be sinner. Well, that is ātho vata-manyate jagat. That is the conditioned soul's qualification, that if he is a fool, he thinks other fools. Everyone, he thinks he is like me.

So that is nature. Ātmavata-manyate ye jagat. Everyone thinks others like himself. If he is a fool, he thinks all others. These things are no argument.

Nobody has seen God. How do you take the statistics? Can you say like that, any statistics, that nobody has? Maybe you have not seen him or have seen God.

That is quite possible because you have not scrutinized, extracted all the men of the world. Then how you can say nobody has seen? You have not seen the man who has seen him. He will not admit his fault.

He will accuse others. Nobody has seen God. Why? You may not have seen, but why you say nobody has seen?

You have not seen that person who has seen God. Therefore you say like that. So those people who wrote the Bible never, did not see God. That is, when God is canvassing, here I am, Kṛṣṇa, they will not see it.

And still they accuse nobody has seen. Verse in Christianity. Satsang with Mooji punya vihārī gupī-jana-vallabha-girebha-dhārī yaśodānaṁ naṁ vraja-jana-rañjana yam rati-ra-dana-cāri, rādhā-mādhava-kāri Bhū vārka-dhyāma ki jāi. Saṁhit bhakt-mṛnda ki jāi.

All glory to Jaya Sambharāyukārī. All glory to Jaya Sambharāyukārī. Thank you very much. All glory is to you, Srila Prabhupāda.

All glory is to you, Prabhupāda. Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice engagement, husband and wife, Eric. You can try. Give him.

You can try. recorder here that we have we can make it so you can play nicely and then later on ethics at our own time we will take to play at the Madang and cartels nicely this way we won't waste any of your time so that's a good idea see we can after you are gone at our own time we can play nicely Do you think that is a good idea or no? I do not know. I am not expert. Well, if we can't get someone to play drum right now… We would like to do that.

We would like to do it like that, Prabhupāda. Do you want to do that? No, if we get the people to play now, that would be the… My father wanted me to become like this, know everything what is going on. He never wanted me to be a worldly man, earning money.

He never wanted. There was some arrangement for my going to England after my college education, to become barrister. My father refused, no, my son is not going to be a mleccha. Yes, yes.

Taking lessons, professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. He cannot clear.

He has to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, meaning. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take.

Professor, Dr. W. S. R.

Quart, he was our professor for psychology, metaphysics. Later on he became the vice-chancellor, Calcutta University. He was a very nice gentleman. Dr.

Mayus finds that he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little now. One press reporter in the Berkeley University in the beginning, he wrote his article and he read that after hearing this Hare Kṛṣṇa for a few minutes, I came home chanting all the word Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So give him some prasāda.

Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscrapers building, all taken away. That's finished. Got out. This is God.

Now you understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He'll take you, take your everything and get out. That is God.

You believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. The same example. The tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, get out, then you have to go out. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything.

Finished. That one has to believe. Yes? As sure as death.

Then God is sure. He may challenge. So long you have got little life for a few years, But God will come and drive you away from your present, right, prestigious position. Get out.

So unless one is madman, he cannot say there is no God. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman. Prabhupāda, wouldn't it be better to say he is blind, he is stupid? Yes, the same thing.

Mad is the sum total of all stupidity. When I say mad, it is the sum total of all kinds of stupidity. Now you can give them prasādam. I think we have occupied that time.