Australia Preaching 1980's

Bear a thought for the Hare Krishnas. The Hare Krishnas have been in Australia for more than 10 years now. Seems a lot longer. The Orange people, or Rajneeshis, as they're also called, are a more recent arrival.

But people are now confusing the Hare Krishnas with the Orange people, and even abusing Krishnas on the street. And the Krishnas don't like being mixed up with what they regard as a bunch of non-religious upstarts. Murray Moore reports. Mainly it just centers around, you know, drugs, sex, and rock and roll.

People think that we're into those things, which of course the Rajneesh are, but we're not. Things like, well, you all indulge in group sex, or, you know, one of the other ones is, oh, you're the people where your master has 96 Rolls Royces. It's cheapening the whole spiritual process, and I really object to that. The plight of Hare Krishnas in 1985. being accused of indulging in free sex drinking and following a guru with a stable of Rolls Royces all because of the color of their robes.

Our celibate monks they wear these saffron colored robes and have always. Chittahari regional director of the Krishna's. It means celibacy that's exactly what it means so when we're our orange men are mistaken for Rajneesh I mean it's a great offense because they're celibate and the rajneesh are blatantly um you know like promiscuous promiscuous that's it it's easy to see why they're being confused take away the chants and bells and there's little difference but it wasn't a major problem until this woman arrived you know you're a worthless man sheila the orange people's idea of public relations you must know pimps because you must be going to prostitute yourself she's actually a very obnoxious lady. Do you think she's a good right-hand person for a spiritual leader?

Well if a spiritual leader's got a right-hand person like that it doesn't say a lot from his teachings. Do you know what religion they belong to? Orange people? I think it would be orange.

Orange people. I think so. High official? Yep.

What do you think? Orange person. An orange person? Yeah.

Why do you think an orange person? Because they're wearing orange robes. Orange people, that's all that we call them. a big insult actually for a harry christian it's the worst if you want to insult a harry krishna call him a rajneesh it's ironic of all religions it's a harry krishnas who are condemning the orange people it was only a few years ago street possessions like this were banned in melbourne streets and certainly not encouraged in other capital cities but now the krishnas say that they are as respectable as the catholic or protestant churches we're even more we are seen as more religious they all know that and we're a lot of fun the hari krishnas are so outraged they want the government to stop the rajneeshis claiming to be a religion they're not a religion they may be a business organization or something like that but they are not a religion why aren't they because they don't follow the moral principles of purity the orange people first agreed to answer the criticisms but then had a change of heart because they don't recognize the the Krishna religion, as it has, quote, too many rules, beliefs, and disciplines.

Don't you think it's ironic that it's the Hare Krishnas who are complaining about this way-out fringe religion? Look, Marie, the Hare Krishnas have never, ever been in question as to their religious principles. We may have had some criticism over our strange looks, which is not strange in the 1980s anyway. In fact, we're very in.

Shaved heads are very in, you know. but um but it was only a few years ago people were criticizing you i'm very proud to walk down the street with a shaved head and robes on people all give you respect businessmen everybody it's the orange robes which seems to cause the confusion would you consider discarding them we're not going to change that's how it's always been our custom it always will be would you like them to change colors um yeah we sure wouldn't mind it why don't They become the brown people or something. Murray Moore had an unusual problem of identity. More in a moment. The suspicion the Orange People or Rajneeshis are currently creating in Western Australia is much the same as that stirred up by the Hare Krishna movement a decade or more ago.

Yet today, not only are the Hare Krishnas accepted, they're actually being depended upon for their aid work in such places as Sydney's King's Cross, where they give a thousand meals a week to down-and-out residents. The shuffling feet are reminiscent of the 30s, but the background music is no longer Buddy, Can You Spare a Dime. This is a modern-day soup kitchen in Sydney's King's Cross and just part of the charity distributed daily by the Hare Krishna movement around the world. Although the derelicts, the drug addicts and the homeless are the main recipients of Hare Krishna welfare, up the stairs of their King's Cross temple, a dining room equal to any upmarket restaurant.

The food is still free, but the atmosphere is designed to tempt a better class of clientele. Amongst the diners this night, the Reverend Ted Noss, whose wayside chapel just down the road has struggled to bring religion against the tide to the godless King's Cross for a generation. Hare Krishna's, in a way, I think in the 21st century will fulfil the role that the Salvation Army fulfilled, say, in the 18th and 19th centuries. but all those meals cost money where does it come from yeah well God is signing the checks he may not personally sign them but through different means he's making so much wealth available for the for these purposes Krishna devotees say they have the resources to serve an infinite number of meals and whatever the demand they'll stretch to meet it David McLaughlin for seven national news Mr. Yabsley, as a politician, what do you think of the work that the Hari Christians do here in King's Cross, your electorate?

In terms of meeting the physical needs of many people in the King's Cross area, I think the work they are doing is marvellous, particularly in view of the fact that there is total independence from government and absolutely no desire to develop any dependence upon government. And in this day and age, that's a singularly great achievement. At the same time, there's obviously a very profound spiritual element And combined with that, that I know very little about, but I can see a very deep faith there. Are they fulfilling a role that perhaps government agencies should be fulfilling?

No, I don't think so. I see it that independent organisations can do a far better job than government will ever hope to be able to do in the area of providing welfare for those people who need it. And I think there are many examples of where government has moved in, has taken over and ends up providing a demonstrably inferior service to that that organisations such as this are providing. Are there many votes here for the temple?

I don't know. One of the rewarding things about politics is that you become involved in many areas where in fact the votes are irrelevant. I haven't done a head count of Hare Krishnas in the electorate of Bly but I might that'll do us nicely, thank you Pratap, is there a philosophy behind the meal distribution service? well Srila Prabhupada, the founder of the Hare Krishna movement he said that no one should go hungry within a radius of 10 miles from the temple so that's always been a very important instruction as far as we're concerned and therefore we like to make public as far as possible that we have this program so that if there's anybody out there that is hungry or that wants to have a meal we want to make them aware that we have this service so we'd like to see that everybody within a 10 mile radius of the temple has a full belly that's the general philosophy is there a particular need in this area of King's Cross? well we're in King's Cross not so much because it's the best place to prosecute spiritual life But we've come here because we see that King's Cross actually is the place, this area is the place which really needs it most.

In what ways? Well, we find here that the suffering is most intense, that people in the King's Cross area, in this inner-city area, are actually suffering more than perhaps anywhere else in Sydney. And people here are much more anxiety. Sinful life here is much more intense.

So therefore we come right to the root of the problem. Each night you have a queue of people waiting to be served with meals. How many of those people become devotees of Krishna? Well, it's not really a proselytizing move.

Very, very few would actually take to the Krishna conscious way of life. Very few. You don't push consciously the religion as people come to this? The people that come here, they don't feel any pushing at all from our side.

We're providing a service, and on the other hand, we're not trying to proselytize or trying to influence people to accept our philosophy. They can take it or they can leave it. It's there, they can see it, but it's up to the individual. But we, for our part, we don't push upon the public our way of life.

So they come and they take, and then they can leave, or if they like, they can stay. How can you afford to do that, to give without getting anything in return in the way of devotion well God is not a poor man so we're feeding say every day three to five hundred people here but actually we could feed we could feed 30,000 people here maybe not here but we could take over the Hyatt Hotel and we could feed them there but as the need is there we can supply God is unlimitedly wealthy and therefore you You know, we can, what's 300, 500 people? That is nothing. We can feed the whole of Sydney if they want to come.

What about the money aspect, though? You have to find the physical need to buy the food or to get the food from somewhere to pay for all of that. Yeah, well, God is signing the checks. He may not personally sign them, but through different means, he's making so much wealth available for these purposes.

So we're taking that wealth and we're distributing it to the people. wealth is meant for that it's meant to actually be taken and given back once again in the form of so many different benefits to the people that'll do us nicely, thank you that was a beautiful sermon okay Reverend Ted Noss does the Krishna Temple compete with or complement the Wayside Chapel? Oh absolutely, it complements the chapel without the temple here not only would the chapel not be able to do its work effectively but I think the whole community would suffer the vast amount of meals served I mean what the government would have to do with so many hungry people without their continuous work I think would be enormous I think the money they save the community is measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars Why do you send people here? Well because not only is there food that's terribly important but there's also fellowship and it's given in a charitable and in a friendly way it's not like a dull queue and it's not like a handout from some kind of government agency which is often impersonal, doesn't have any feeling to it.

And I think spiritual centres like the Hare Krishna Centre are invaluable, not only invaluable, I think absolutely necessary to deal with the kind of harshness in our society today. What we're seeing is very different from a Salvation Army soup kitchen. Well, actually, you've hit the nail on the head. In a way, the Hare Krishnas are the updating of the Salvation Army.

I mean, you see the music is a factor of their whole presentation, the uniform or the way they dress is in a kind of a uniform. And not only that, the smiling face, the generous attitude, and of course the spiritual word of encouragement. All of that is virtually what the Hare Krishnas have become to the world in the 20th century. The Salvation Army, although the Salvation Army is working up here, and it still has a job to do.

But Hare Krishnas, in a way, I think in the 21st century, fulfill the role that Salvation Army fulfilled say in the 18th and 19th centuries and you applaud that service oh absolutely I think that we lose sight of the fact that all of our welfare work begins with spiritual activities such as this we we see a drug center we see a health department we see an education department they didn't start off as a result of political action and political decisions they began with some person saying that we've got to teach these children something and so you have a whole education department evolve you find somebody who's dealing with a sick and so you have the Catholics building a great big st. Vincent's Hospital and after a while government departments become so big and they say we did it all I did nothing the real welfare work in the world began with places like this temple this is the real spiritual work of this city at this moment and the real welfare work because it's not just a handout it's a handout with something else human compassion and it gives welfare a human face it's almost like a blueprint do you feel that you feel all those requirements I think she's very modest very much that's a major point to what degree does love play a part in the marriage to a great degree I think the the difference is that is that the couple shares a mutual love for Krishna first and then uh love for each other comes second because that that's the love that's going to keep them together their love for krishna is that so rather than the man to woman because krishna is at the center of the marriage well where does your life go from here do you go back to america she uh well sharmila has some work to finish up for her phd and then she's coming to america later on next summer we're going to be living in new york i guess a lot of people and i thought of of this when i first was told about the interview um how do you rationalize um wealth and krishna well of course krishna is the wealthiest person anywhere of course got it as a proprietor of everything so uh it's just like the only difference between like say myself my position being born in a very wealthy family and being born in uh say ethiopia into a starving family is uh is my karma you know it's simply work that's been done as shirley mcclain was talking about in past lifetimes so uh this wealth that i've been given by krishna i i choose to utilize in his service because it belongs to him anyway so i don't i don't see any there's no conflict in my life at all so presumably you inject large funds into religion right how does that govern do you have a control on that or is that completely relinquished to the religion no i i i tend to try to take a personal role in how the money is being spent and which projects is being spent on it's like we just finished a huge cultural exhibition in detroit and we're also working on one here in australia so uh i i tend to oversee where i spend my money i like to see how it's spent where it's been as a youth um you were anything but a religious man rather wild and woolly to say the least what occurred to change your life so dramatically well i think i've always been religious but i've never never been very disciplined and uh i think also that was another characteristic i was looking for in a wife as someone who had some religious discipline you know was regulated in their activities but i think i've always believed in god it's just that i was just not brought up to be to have sort of a regulated discipline life i was uh i was rather wild and had the facilities to do whatever i wanted to do sure how does your family feel about the whole arrangement i well they've seen the changes that i've been through since i became a devotee and they're very pleased about it and sharmila what about your family i mean they're happy because they couldn't have found a better son-in-law who's following the true vedic tradition yeah well look i hope it goes well for you both one thing i might get you to do just before you go is describe what the ceremony will be like on boxing day i'm going to get and you do it what is it going to be a christian ceremony or what yes it's going going to be a true Vedic ceremony.

A true Vedic. Vedic, which is the culture of ancient India. So we have a fire sacrifice and in the presence of the Guru and Krishna, the man and the wife accept each other as husband and wife and we chant Sanskrit mantras and we go around the fire seven times and that's basically. There's a huge vegetarian feast afterwards with Indian music and dances and whatever.

Are you open to people coming along to have a look? Yeah, definitely. Would you mind if we brought our cameras to have a look? No, I wish you would.

It would be great. I think we'll do that and have a look at it, what is it, sometime between Christmas and New Year. Thank you for joining us this morning. I appreciate it, Alfred and Shyamala.

Thank you for joining us and congratulations. Thank you. Have everything go well. Well, that's Shyamala and Alfred Ford, who will be getting married in a Krishna ceremony on Boxing Day just west of Sydney.

We'll be back with more of Good Morning Australia in just a moment welcome back to good morning australia a wedding is always a great time for the whole family and friends to get together and celebrate the love of two people yesterday good morning australia went to a wedding with a difference it was conducted in the traditional harry krishna fashion and good morning australia reporter sheridan jobbins joined in the festivities for five thousand years people from india have been married in traditional krishna ceremonies krishna being a forerunner to the more familiar hinduism in the ceremony mantras are chanted the couple's spiritual master makes a speech about marriage the couple exchange vows and the marriage is consecrated in a ceremony which involved the bride walking around the groom seven times while rice is thrown over them the master utters more mantras and a fire representing lord krishna burns as a witness to the ceremony then the husband paints a red dot or line on the bride's forehead and her sari is tied with his dhoti the couple are now married for the krishna movement this wedding has been of special significance because it's been between two of their more highly respected devotees shamila bhattacharya a sydney doctor and amarish das otherwise known as mr alfred ford the great grandson and heir to the car magnet henry ford's estate no matter if i own the whole world you know maybe for 60 70 years then you die and then where do you go you know of course you need religion and it doesn't you never know how long you're going to be here i could walk out to the door today and get run over by a truck well it really doesn't mean anything you know it doesn't matter how much or how little you have you still have to face death and what would great grandfather make of all of this he was into some pretty avant-garde things pure power i think he well he was into reincarnation i know then vegetarianism I think he would have liked to travel, liked exotic things. After the sharing of vows, the throwing of rice, what wedding would be complete without breaking some bread with friends and family?

What a feast. The only other traditional similarity is the sense of relief when the whole thing's over. I'm glad it's over. Do you know that it's part of their tradition to have 100 courses at a wedding breakfast, at a Hare Krishna wedding?

My goodness. That could take you most of the day. And evening and the next day and the breakfast as well. It was funny, when he was in here talking to us last week about the wedding, he was so confident of the changes that have made in his life.

A lot of people still treat the Hare Krishna, well, they call it a religion, I suppose it is, as being a little odd, but certainly he thinks it's done wonders for his life. Oh, it's nice to know. It's all faith and tradition, really. So as long as it keeps you happy, I guess that's the main thing.

On Boxing Day we covered the beautiful Hare Krishna wedding of Alfred Ford and Sharmila Bhattacharya. We got so much response from viewers who were very curious about the Krishna lifestyle that we decided to invite Sharmila back on the show to tell us more. Good morning and thank you for the garland. You're welcome.

It smells beautiful. It's the best I've smelled all morning. Sharmila, most people only have a superficial view of Hare Krishna, the brow paint and the robes. What does it mean to adopt the lifestyle? well the main thing is to chant Hare Krishna regularly every morning and following the four regulative principles which involve no meat-eating no gambling no intoxication and no illicit sex when you're married I believe even then there is very specific rules about sexual yeah we only engage in sex in order to have children even in marriage wouldn't that reduce the intimacy of a couple and their ability to just be close to each other no it doesn't because in krishna consciousness we develop a higher taste and we have so many things to share that it doesn't take away any intimacy from a married couple so the only point then is to have children that's right is that sexist no the whole purpose of sex life is meant for procreation and since it involves it takes for in order to progress in spiritual life you have to get away from this concept of vehicle yes so that's why in order to accentuate the role of the soul which we really really are.

We are spirits, souls, eternal parts and parcels of God, Krishna. So that helps us with the understanding that we are not these bodies. And the more you engage in sex, you're actually relating body rather than the soul. I know that Krishna marriages are arranged.

Was yours arranged with Alfred? They're not always arranged because we all have people who are already married when they join Krishna Consciousness. There are often boyfriend and girlfriends who join Krishna Consciousness. And like the spiritual master helps if you don't have anyone in mind.

He can help find someone who will suit your particular nature. But it's not always arranged. Like in my case it wasn't arranged. Can you divorce?

Well, not really, no. It's not at all encouraged. So when you decide on marriage it's a very big step and you're you should have thought about all the pros and cons before you get into now what were you doing before you join Krishna and and give us an idea now the day you lead right well I was a student at Melbourne University when I joined the Krishna consciousness movement I was doing a master's and now I'm doing a PhD and my routine day for me involves getting up about no later than four in the morning chanting Hare Krishna for about a couple of hours and offering the foodstuffs to Krishna before breakfast and then go off to the hospital for a full day of of research and coming back home to read some of the nice books i have here why does a woman obviously of great intelligence offer foodstuffs to to an ethereal being oh krishna is not an ethereal being he's his god is the supreme personality of god and he can't eat those cakes huh but he can't eat the cakes he what's so wonderful about krishna is that he does eat them but he still leaves everything for you to have after he's spiritualized the food.

What's so important about offering the food to Krishna is that he takes away all the karma from the food that's involved, like you incur so many sinful reactions by lighting a fire to cook, you kill so many living entities, so you're sinning at every point. So when you have prepared your food, you offer it to Krishna, away all the karma for the sinful reactions you incur and he spiritualizes the food and you you just have to take it and enjoy it do you eat it obviously you eat it afterwards yes of course do you spend much time with your husband if he was here i would but he's in the united states right now because he has business to take care of and i have a very hectic schedule was Was there any reluctance to marry him because of the Ford name and the empire that he comes from?

No, because he doesn't really involve himself so much with the family business. Your own feelings about the future of your life, if you'd never come across Krishna, wouldn't you have been happy in yourself, satisfied? No, I would have missed out on a great deal, because I think every person in their own lifetime comes across this question in their mind that who am i what isn't there more to life than just what i'm doing right now where did i come from where am i going every morning at 5 a.m i know exactly what you're talking about what the hell am i doing but everyone shelves that question because there is no answer to it but when i came to krishna consciousness and read these books i found the answers to these questions and they they've provided a definite goal in life and i can see everything in the proper perspective right now so i think my life would have been incomplete without krishna consciousness and you can get up at 4 30 a.m and smile yes we all smile and dance give me the book i must read this book we've got to leave it there thank you very much for coming and people are fascinated about about your lifestyle and uh i would like to first of all to thank you shamala for sharing more of your time and i don't know about the diet but certainly how to do it positively has some vegetarian recipes but it's different from any other vegetarian cookbook because it tells you how to spiritualize your food this is just a little paperback about reincarnation and this is a biography on the founder of our movement AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada I won't repeat that we've got to leave it there thank you very much for coming in thank you we'll be back with more good morning Australia and more peace of mind after this short break amusement parks with a theme have certainly become the trend each weekend thousands of families spend thousands at places such as Old Sydney Town, the Gold Coast Sea World or Dream World.

And now a new tourist attraction has sprung up just south of the Gold Coast tourist strip but in northern New South Wales. And as Brian Anderson reports, this really is a world of difference. It's a fair dinkum enough little corner of Australia, but then again it is different. A rich river valley west of Mawillumbah in northern New South Wales. peaceful quiet and home to a people who are still the object of curiosity wherever they go here's one place that booze is banned there's no sex on the side no eating of meat no gambling allowed a society that claims a divorce rate of only two or three percent the gold coast has its dream world and sea world now northern new south wales the gold coast has its dream world and sea world now northern new south wales has its hari krishna world 400 hectares of prime aussie countryside that the krishnas are developing as a tourist trap it's their rural retreat as well a six million dollar development that already has its own school and housing estate together with a marble temple restaurant souvenir shop and display of australian native birds to keep the customers coming in although talk to the tourists and you'll find that the hari krishnas themselves are the main attraction we found it very interesting it's the first time we've ever come here we've got 35 people and we offered them the same deal for the same price uh to come to here or to get off at the moorland bar over sell and they chose to come here there was only two got off so they chose this instead of the poker machine yes yes yes that's saying something the hari krishnas certainly don't hide away from the outside world their farm is open to visitors at any time but this was advertised as a festival day and sold to all comers like any other tourist attraction a sort of meet us down on the farm and see what we're all about day and any ladies that you see that have a red dot on your forehead they're married and any ladies that don't have a red dot on their forehead they're single so it's like when you go to the army you can see he's got three stripes he's a sergeant so you can tell i'm married you're married right i have a family my wife's around here somewhere and my daughter and those men that have the the orange robes they're not married they're Australians but they follow an Indian religion and lifestyle that's thousands of years old in the early days they were ostracized or ignored by the general community but it seems that after a quarter of a century they're here to stay I didn't know very much at all except that well obviously that they were vegetarian and they had a rather severe lifestyle Shirley Craig is a Hare Krishna grandma she doesn't follow their religion herself but two daughters and five grandchildren live here at Hare Krishna World.

When they come home to stay with us, they mix with so many other children, it doesn't seem to be any problem for them. They don't feel a part of a different world? No, no, it doesn't faze them a little bit. Sometimes you can see other people look at their hair, you know, they have the little piece of hair at the back.

No, it doesn't seem to worry them. So I just can't think of the word, but I know that they're very, very at ease with everybody. The feature event of the day that most people were waiting for, a genuine, live before your very own eyes, Hare Krishna wedding. Colourful, noisy, and it seemed a real crowd pleaser.

But did the Krishnas win any hearts? And just what chance do they have of turning their devotional Disneyland into a fully fledged tourist attraction? Has it changed your idea of what sort of people they are? No, I doubt not.

I don't think so. So what sort of people do you think they are? Better be careful what I'm saying here, don't I? I think they're righteous people.

I'd come again. You would? And the children have enjoyed it. So they've won a few hearts, have they?

Oh, I think so. Just as people. I was expecting, like, more Christianity or more... ..not-so-happy one. I reckon they are quite happy people.

Christians they're not happy it certainly seems so their lifestyle is as strict as that inside any monastery yet it's open to the outside world at the same time and provided they don't run short of people to undergo their very public wedding ceremonies Hare Krishna world could well become a popular and profitable tourist destination Hare Krishna's showing Queenslanders what we're like over the border in New South Wales the newly formed coalition against poverty is leading the fight to have the emergency payments reintroduced. The system of small cash payments for urgent things like food and electricity was instituted by the state government in 1978 to combat welfare cuts by the Fraser government. This month the state government cut 6.8 million dollars, 75% of funds available for the emergency cash handouts because it believes it's a federal responsibility. While they are toughing it out, people are starving, people are having their life cut off, people are being a and it will get worse before it gets better.

I went to receive assistance for my electricity bill. YACS paid half of it for me and told me not to come back for any assistance for another year. The cuts mean single people have been virtually excluded from the scheme and payments will be made only to married couples whose children are deemed at risk or neglected or where the family could break down without emergency aid. A spokesman for Youth and Community Services, Minister Frank Walker, Frank Walker, said the state government has no plans to reintroduce the payments.

Since the emergency cash system was cut, business has boomed at inner city soup kitchens, with some experiencing double their normal patronage. Last Wednesday, the Hare Krishna Food for Life kitchen ran out of free food for the first time in eight years. Since emergency aid was cut on the 1st of October, the number of people queuing for food at the Hare Krishna Food for Life centre has almost doubled. Almost 200 a night are expected by the end of the month if there's no boost in emergency aid from the state or federal governments.

Last Wednesday night, the centre ran out of food for the first time in its five years of operation. To help cope with demand, the Hare Krishnas tonight officially opened an extension of their dining area. Worldwide director of Food for Life, Srila Vishnupad, says it's a disgrace that in a wealthy country like Australia, people are starving. I mean, it's ridiculous that you have so much wheat.

You're one of the major wheat-producing countries in the world. And just over some politics and bickering over a small amount of money between the state government and the federal government, and meanwhile the people are starving. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's a symptom of an uncaring government, and those kind of governments should be thrown out.

The cut in emergency aid also continues to stretch the resources of other voluntary agencies. The Smith family, Careforce and Sydney City Mission today reported an 80% increase in demand for assistance. Carolyn Jack, Eyewitness News.